Conversations with Betty

Original Interview

What was it like to be a lesbian in St. Louis during the 1950s? To give us some perspective, I spent time talking to a few incredible lesbians who had this experience. Our first interview features Betty, who was born in 1936 and began to enter the bar community during her teen years. One of the most remarkable changes she described is the gay community relationship with the police. During her early years, it was not uncommon to be in a bar that was raided. The police would come in and make arrests, taking the unlucky individuals away in a Black Mariah. Betty was usually charged with impersonating a male and because she dated prostitutes (a habit that was quite common during this era), she might even get a shot of penicillin at city hospital and be charged with prostitution. You could be held for 24 hours on suspicion and she estimates that she was arrested 4-5 times. Before the feminist movement, the butch-femme dynamic was all encompassing. Everyone had to choose which role to take. Betty, of course, was a butch. I found while reading other studies of lesbians during this era that it has been difficult to locate the stories of femmes. Many of them are no longer active in the gay community and thus, more difficult to locate. Betty reported that it was uncommon for a femme to go out to the bars alone. If there was dancing, it was incumbent on the butch to do the asking. I am hoping to track down more information on some of the bars that Betty remembers: The Goldengate was a men’s bar in the are of Olive and Grand, near Gaslight Square. It had a large serpent on the wall as part of its décor. Janey’s restaurant, which later became El Serape, was located on the southside of Olive near Grand. Shelley’s bar, which was owned by an older straight couple, had music in the form of a piano. It was a small place and upstairs there was entertainment and sometimes jazz. Betty remembers someone by the name of Rusty Warren who performed there and was a humorist as well as a jazz musician. The photographs in the bar post feature a number of lesbian bars or former locations that were made during a tour of St. Louis that Betty led. She shared many memories of each of these bars and described how integral to the community these places really were. Betty's CB was the first lesbian bar that she ever went to and on her very first visit, it was raided. Some older lesbians pushed her out the back window and that time, she escaped arrest. That was particularly fortunate, since she was underage. Betty is the key source of information and contacts for this project and her story will continue to be told as I proceed with this project. In later years, Betty became very involved in Team St. Louis.

 
I received a note from James Hawkins who owned several bars in St. Louis and remembers Rusty Warren. Here is his note

 " On your blog you mentioned Rusty Warren. She did perform at Shelly's Bar. It was rumored she got her start at there. She became one of the funniest comedians through out the US and was a headliner in Las Vegas for many years. She never forgot her roots. When she was appearing in Saint Louis she would make it a point to hit the gay bars. I will never forget the first time she came to The Red Bull she and her girl friend pulled up in a Rolls Royce.                You can pull her up on YouTube at

Rusty Warren - Lady Behind the Laughs            She was one wild and funny lady."

James also opened a bar called the Glory Hole and here is a copy of his original note to me:

"My name is Jim Hawkins. Jerry Edwards and I opened The Red Bull in East Saint Louis and The French Market in Saint Louis. For the past several months I have been writing a book on the experiences we had while we were in business.  I'm trying to find photos that anyone might have of any of our businesses in that time period from 1968 on.

Photos in gay bars at that time are extremely rare. After seeing your Blog I knew you were the one I needed to contact. I have lived in Jacksonville,Florida for many years and have lost contact with so many of the people I knew in Saint Louis. If you know of anyone who may have any photos please contact me and Thank You for your time. Jim Hawkins email jdhawkins2004@yahoo.com"

Laura's Story

Laura was born on Oct. 6, 1945 and was raised in orphan homes throughout St. Louis. She knew that she was gay in grade school and her first relationship was during her HS years. Though she had a number of fleeting relationships, her first stable committed relationship was not until later in life, mid thirties. During her younger years, she was more interested in having fun and extremely busy, working, going to school and participating in politics at several levels.
She was the administrative assistant to a Soulard state rep during 1970’s and was active in 7th ward-low income politics. She has memories of many stereotypical smoky backroom political meetings. She also remembers that gay gathering places during the 1960s were dependent on connections to the mob or to members of the local police department.
She was also the first woman to graduate from Rankin Technical School and a long time building inspector for the city of St. Louis.
She has memories of a number of lesbian meeting places and many feminist groups that formed during the sixties and seventies such as women’s collectives. She remembers the following places and groups:
A Woman’s Place- a lesbian Center during 70’s, it was fire bombed at some point and was located near Compton and Louisiana (where Sears use to be). There was a bar on the first floor and upstairs, there were poetry readings and talks on lesbians and the law.
St. Louis Rape Support and Women’s Safehouse, which was started by lesbians.
Woman’s Eye Bookstore-originally located on Demun, near Concordia Seminary. It then moved to Delmar and in the basement was a food collective, a roofing collective and an auto repair collective.
There was a building on Lafayette, near Grand that was rented out to a lesbian feminist group by nuns for $1 year. This was the base of the St. Louis abused women’s support group and the first staff members were Vista Volunteers. This was during the 70s.
Wired Women evolved out of a group called Tomato Productions.
Les Talk, which was a community newspaper.

Laura also remembers the St. Louis NOW organization was dominated by lesbians. This was also a time when a few churches began welcoming gays and lesbians including the Unitarian Churches. She described her experience as a butch lesbian feminist. She found that she was often attacked from all sides but she tried to remain true to herself throughout. She described lesbian feminism as primarily a woman-centered life. Though, she was involved in male dominated fields such as politics and attending Ranken Technical School, her emotional and sexual energy was centered only on women, primarily lesbian women. But she was also involved in promoting the domestic violence protection bill and was later the civil rights commissioner for the city of St. Louis. She found herself alienated from affluent gay men.
She always found her political work created a sort of extended family and she later graduated from UMSL with a degree in the Administration of Justice. She had wanted to be a lawyer but felt that would require a compromise that she just couldn’t make. She was arrested several times during various political protests and at times felt anger at the lack of justice she saw in society but always tried to vent it in a positive manner. She felt a connection with the working class, women, minorities and her own community which she described as the queer community.